Beyond Kilimanjaro with Marine, Mycal Anders (part 2)

In this episode of Self-Worth, Marine, Mycal Anders, talks summiting Kilimanjaro - the physical challenge, the mental challenge, and how sometimes giving up is even harder than pushing on. This episode is brimming over with advice on how to expand past your upper limits - invite intentional adversity, know your why, 1% changes add up to totally different destinations - and so much more. This is an episode you will not want to miss.

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Transcript

Jaclyn Steele: 0:58

All right, listeners today on the podcast, part two, we have Michael Anders, my good friend. I'm so excited. You're here again. Thank you.

Unknown: 1:08

Yeah, I'm pumped to run it back. This is This is so fun.

Jaclyn Steele: 1:12

Well, you just came back from Africa. And climbing Mount Kilimanjaro, no big deal. Huge deal. I'm very jealous. And so excited to hear about your trip. So can you start from the beginning? Why you wanted to do this? And then, like, what happened when you landed in Africa and got to the base of Mount Kilimanjaro?

Unknown: 1:38

Yeah, you know, you know, the, the really, really short story is the hardest physical thing I've ever done.

Jaclyn Steele: 1:48

which is saying a lot for a marine and a football player and a CrossFit gym owner.

Unknown: 1:58

You know, I there's this thing that I believe in, with every fiber of my being, and it's called Internet, intentional adversity. And I feel like it is part of our duty as human beings to go out of our way to stretch ourselves, challenge ourselves, and then play in our edges and just explore where our limits are, you know, to, to safe extent, you know, but nonetheless, like, every once in a while, you got to spill over and be like, oh, there's, you know, what happened on this trip was, I found myself in a, I can't turn back situation, in that the only way this story ends is by finishing. And there's, you know, so that was like the biggest takeaway, right? Like how being the author of my own story, how do I want this to end? Right? And the the back story on this whole thing, me and a bunch of guys that I deployed with in the Marines, in a very random way, reconnected eight years after that deployment. All but one of us are out of the Marines, and doing cool stuff in tech consulting, and in fitness. And one of us is riding out his clock to retirement, and then he's almost there. And one day, my buddy Paul just shows up at the gym. And what's what's interesting, going back to what we were talking about off the mic. I think this is so funny. You and Sam also fit in this category of people in my life. The the gym has become a beacon for people from my past lives.

Jaclyn Steele: 4:25

Such a beacon for connection.

Unknown: 4:28

And, you know, it totally serves that people that purpose, not only for our members, but also like my nearest and dearest. You know, when people come to Phoenix, they're like, I'm one of the first people they look up because they know I have this brick and mortar institution. And as I say that out loud. I think that has a lot to do with my attachment to it. It's brought so many people back into my life that otherwise probably wouldn't have. But in any case, Paul shows up, he joins the gym trains here while he's finishing a master's. In one day. We're sitting at the bar having beers having a good old time and he's been all over the world. You know, he's done. He's backpacked the Alps. He's done Everest base camp. You know, he's, he's just an adventurer. Yeah. And we're sitting there and he's like, dude, in December. I think I'm gonna go do Machu Picchu.

Jaclyn Steele: 5:39

Mm hmm.

Unknown: 5:40

And I was like,

Jaclyn Steele: 5:41

I hiked Machu Picchu. Yeah.

Unknown: 5:43

And I was like, Oh, I totally. I'm in what was this? This is like, July or August of 19. And he's like the December. So we like look at all the dates. He does this real quick. Well, They'll check, you know, when's optimal, blah, blah, blah. And at the bar, we booked plane tickets to Peru. And in a moment of clarity, I was like, Oh, shit, I should probably tell my wife that

Jaclyn Steele: 6:15

probably

Unknown: 6:17

you. We send the screenshot of the two of us with these giant beers in front of us to a bunch of our other moraine bros. And we're like, hey, December, we're gone to Machu Picchu, who's coming. And two more guys on that list. Also booked tickets that day. And these are just the crazy, like ride or die.

Jaclyn Steele: 6:44

These are the friends that everybody wants, though. These are the friends that everybody wants it well, it's so important because like, life is happening all around us all the time, there's never going to be a perfect time to do anything, whether that's get in shape, or go to Peru, but we have to decide what do we want our lives to look like? Who do we want to be?

Unknown: 7:03

Well, you know, that was one of my takeaways in this Kilimanjaro thing. And I'll tell you about that in a second. So that that was the impetus for this. Hey, and Peru has its own crazy narrative that I'd love to share with you on the podcast. We can we can do a round three, no doubt. We committed to each other in that moment off that trip that we were going to do something like this every other year to get outside the borders of the US and do something epic. And then the pandemic happened that postpone things. I was originally going to do Kilimanjaro on the back end of my world immersion credits in business school. Then ASU couldn't figure out the liability of things and whatnot. So they canceled that trip. And I had to take a different class instead. comes full circle. Paul's like a you know, like, the cloud is lifting over this COVID thing. Where are we going? And I was like, Dude, I still have Africa on the list. And he's like, cool. Let's do Africa. And we bought tickets to Kilimanjaro. And Paul, Paul's the planner, so he set it all up, you know, he sent me 10 million follow up emails, because I'm just not an organized person. You have your gear, you got your tickets? Do you have your visa? You know, like, are we doing this? Or what? I was like? Yeah, yeah.

Jaclyn Steele: 8:44

Everybody needs a friend like that.

Unknown: 8:46

Yeah, well, 100%. Yeah. I have zero expectations. Not, you know, I have a number of people in my circle who have done Kilimanjaro and had amazingly positive experiences. And that's really the only expectation that I had. So moving forward. You know, it's 29 hours to get there and 30 hours to get. Yeah,

Jaclyn Steele: 9:12

not a quick trip.

Unknown: 9:14

No. So we took two weeks, two days to get there, we touched down, we all reconnect in Tanzania. And just Africa ended up itself was just absolutely amazing. And one of my initial takeaways before the trek even started, was this projection that we have in the in Western society slash the first world upon those who are not us. And that the narrative is they have less or they they are going without, because they have less. And I this this is actually a hill I'm willing to die on at this point. That's not true. Here, you know, you see, like the Gary v's and the Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, Bezos of the world just like just just going after it and building these things, and it's all How much is that worth? And you know, what's their, what's their net worth and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle. And what I took from watching people navigate Tanzania and society was everybody's a contributor. Oh, wow.

Jaclyn Steele: 10:54

There's such a flippin philosophy there from what can I Get what can I get? What can I get to? What can I give? Yeah. And the whole purpose of life shifts on its head, when you say what can I give? And it gives your life purpose, the most beautiful purpose?

Unknown: 11:13

Yeah, everybody has something to offer. Mm hmm. We have somehow some way, a moat amidst this rat race of accumulation. And that that is not the same as abundance, no, not left our happiness on the curb. In that contribution to your family, to the community, to society, there's purpose and fulfillment, and they're happy. It was just awe inspiring to me. And I get I get a little emotional about it. Because it's like, Man, that is, that is it. You know, I look at my career and what we offer and what our contribution is, through this vehicle that is next level. And like, yeah, I totally want to make a lot of money, for sure.

Jaclyn Steele: 12:18

However, there's nothing wrong with that, oh,

Unknown: 12:20

I, I want that impact. More.

Jaclyn Steele: 12:26

Ah, I love this so much. And I love that this is where the conversation is going. Because this month on the podcasts all about expanding past upper limits. Yeah. And I think the money conversation is such an important one to have. Because people generally put so many limits on how much money they can make, what they're gonna have to do to make that money if they're gonna have to compromise their moral compass, all of these things. But I think the most important thing to keep in mind here is we're capable of making however much money we want to make. Money is a reflection of who we already are for kind good people, we're going to do kind of good things with the money. But beyond that, what is the motivation? What is your money motivation? Is it so that you can buy everything and be a consumer? Or is it to have freedom in your life, be able to travel and have experiences and help other people, those are two totally different things. And I think something really well, two really big takeaways from our conversation thus far. The first is that money is not a requirement for happiness. You saw that firsthand in Tanzania, I saw that firsthand when I was traveling in Peru. It is not a precursor for happiness. The other big takeaway from our conversation is you can pull the trigger at any time. You can book the trip to Kilimanjaro, or book the trip to Peru, in a bar on the same day that you think of it, we have to stop the analysis paralysis, and I get caught in that too. But for people listening, especially analytical people listening, there's nothing wrong with your brain. It's a beautiful brain. However, we have got to stop getting stuck in indecision, and figure out a way to make a decision and move forward.

Unknown: 14:23

Well, part, you know, that that's totally part of what we teach at next level, in that it just happened today. You know, we're got a curveball thrown at me today. And you know, rather than stewing over it, I got out of my mind and into my body.

Jaclyn Steele: 14:46

You know, right piece of advice, step one.

Unknown: 14:49

And through movement, you know, I trained and worked out, you know, I kept that promise to myself. And it created a moment of catharsis where, like, one I was able to detach, just for 60 minutes, I just had to focus on me not dying in this workout, and then but also simultaneously, it created enough separation that I could let go of what was and focus on what is and, you know, if if you're just if you're married to your chaos, if you're married to your trauma, if you're not willing to create systems processes, mechanisms that allow you to get away from that shit, it just it just stews, and then it compounds and your stagnation becomes exponential, and then all of a sudden you find yourself in this position where, man, I'm in this fucking hole. And I don't know how to get out. And I've taught this concept that the leaders forum before, just like, you know, we constantly hear and we're just wired for the negative, right? This negative spiral. Right? If you look at the four tenets of the path to progress, always honor your commitments by keeping your promises, do the hard things and make yourself proud. Well, you're flipping the script, you're creating a positive feedback loop that creates this positive spiral. Yeah. Because by virtue of doing the hard thing and achieving a positive outcome, at the very least making yourself proud for daring to do something great, right? It reinforces that behavior. And you're more likely to make that kind of decision the next time. And you're right, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Jaclyn Steele: 16:53

And it solidifies your self worth. Yes.

Unknown: 16:57

Yeah. And, you know, so coming back to this, the to Kilimanjaro, we spent a couple of times a couple of days in Tanzania. And then we had for the mountain. And we started at 6500. And the, the, the summit is 19,300 feet, not not the death zone, you don't need oxygen or anything like that. But you know, the highest we had been up to that point was 15, and change over this all contae paths in Peru. So we're, we're 4000 feet beyond that.

Jaclyn Steele: 17:35

Yeah. And for people who aren't familiar with climbing, what happens as you increase, there's less oxygen in the air. And so it becomes harder to breathe. Yeah. And so on Kilimanjaro, you don't need oxygen tanks, like you would on Mount Everest. But still, it's incredibly taxing on your system when you don't have easy access to oxygen. I

Unknown: 18:01

mean, metabolically, I think that the human body is just so interesting, because we're my guys, were drinking up to two gallons a day on the trail. I can barely get through a Camelback really. And at the same time, I'm sweating profusely. And they're like, they're almost dry the whole way. And, you know, for the life of me, you know, like, I didn't care that much, but I was definitely it was definitely something that I was interested in and paid attention to. And I was just I was so I'm just genuinely curious as to like, why that was the thing. Yeah. I'm totally categorized as a sweater is disgusting.

Jaclyn Steele: 18:44

Sam is a sweater to big time. He literally sweat droplets on top of me as I was doing. Oh, that's awesome. That's probably spotting me. And literally sweat droplets on my face. I thought I was going to drop the barbell on my neck. So disgusting. Anyway, tangent.

Unknown: 19:07

So you know, we we went up the northern trail, I believe it's called Paul's the planner, I just showed up and started walking. And we were supposed to do. We were supposed to summit on day seven, that back down to the bus on day nine. And to include our porters and guides, everybody had told me going into this experience that, you know, the people who don't make it are people like me, who are who's viewed themselves as fit, who train hard and consistent and they they can just, they're capable of more than they actually are.

Jaclyn Steele: 19:51

Wow.

Unknown: 19:53

So you know, with that in mind, you know, like, I have an idea of what slow looks and feels like, yeah. It's half of that.

Jaclyn Steele: 20:05

Yeah.

Unknown: 20:07

So we step off

Jaclyn Steele: 20:08

you are in the you're probably in the best shape of anybody that I know in real life.

Unknown: 20:14

Well, we'll thank you. Yeah. And I'm the slow guy of the three of us. Wow, wow. Wow. You know, coming back to this, this concept of intentional adversity to your point, like I'm very much the master of my domain. Right. You know, the the reality of of my existence on a day to day is there aren't a whole lot of people that are in better physical condition. However, you know, putting myself in this position where like,

Jaclyn Steele: 20:52

these challenged these, these

Unknown: 20:54

two like I am now challenged to chase after these guys, if I'm not careful, they'll be waiting on me. Right? That's a very humbling position to be in when on a daily basis, it's like well, I know that I'm the king of the castle biggest number on the on the barbell you know, so totally different stimulus way outside of what I would consider my comfort zone. And we get to move in and I run smack in the back of a bike our guy. He's he's moving so slow. And he buy in Swahili Poli. Poli means slow, slow. He's like, it's slow, slow pull a polo. And I was like, dude, like, this is this is too slow, like, I'm going to

Jaclyn Steele: 21:54

break. Yeah, going this slow.

Unknown: 21:57

Right? So we push it, you know, just just a little bit on that first day, we get to our first camp. And the next day, day two, I mean, we got to move just just just just a tad Faster, please. You know, and so we step it out. And for those who don't know that on flat terrain, the average Marine Corps help pace is three miles an hour. With terrain, it's two. Okay, we found ourselves between day one and day two. Doing these, what we're supposed to be five to eight, maybe 10 hour and legs in like, three and a half to six hours. Awesome. And after that second day, the porters are reporting back to our guy. And they're like, What the fuck are you guys doing? Like? We're not? We haven't,

Jaclyn Steele: 23:01

we're not ready for you

Unknown: 23:03

set up. Like they're just sitting on their hands. Like, you know, Are they enjoying this experience? Is this what they were expecting? We don't want to get yelled at. Yeah. And on day three. Right, moving up this hill. And he's like, hold a polling. And it dawned on me, you know, because they check your Oh to saturation and all that stuff at every meal to make sure that Oh, wow, your blood oxygen is where it's supposed to be. If it gets below 70 Your watch if it gets below 60 or 65 they take you off the mountain. Oh, wow. So you know, we're heading up this incline. It dawns on us like this dude doesn't know. So like. Prosper. The name of our guy prosper.

Jaclyn Steele: 23:58

I love it as the day was prosper.

Unknown: 24:01

If you heard a Marine, do you know what Marines you know, Marines? He's not your soldiers. Like, yeah, you know, he's like, breathing soldiers and soldiers ain't Marines. But like, when it passed this time, I'm not going to die on that hill, you know. And here's that all of a sudden, it just it just clicked like, okay, the one I don't need to babysit you to, you know, like, we can move. Right. So we were ended up how we ended up doing that nine day journey

Jaclyn Steele: 24:41

in six. Wow. So you shaved off three full days.

Unknown: 24:46

We skipped two camps. Amazing. We skipped two camps along the way. We we, I like we summited on day six. And we are back at the buses on day seven. Now, I have my journal here.

Jaclyn Steele: 25:06

Yeah. What are your takeaways?

Unknown: 25:08

Anything? So on this whole marine thing? Well, coming into Kilimanjaro, my first takeaway was everything before this moment was just a dress rehearsal or

Jaclyn Steele: 25:21

Wow,

Unknown: 25:23

all because to and through the summit. A, you know, your your fitness doesn't matter. It's how your body responds to elevation. Right? There are very few individuals I know that are not Cape physically capable of making it to the top of Kilimanjaro. However, that being said, if your body doesn't tolerate or respond well to altitude, that's the X Factor. That's me and my tube. bodies are, you know, compared to the field in incredible shape?

Jaclyn Steele: 26:02

And oh, wow, two out of the 433 out of the four. Wow. So the other guy has blood oxygen level is just too low, it was unfair for him to continue.

Unknown: 26:15

I'll tell you about that.

Jaclyn Steele: 26:16

That's so that will be such such a bummer.

Unknown: 26:21

You know, it was, there's nothing you can do, though, if it wouldn't happen. And that's why it's funny because it's an uncontrollable situation. Yeah, this guy's been to Everest base camp and done all those things and, like, just so happened to be his day, right? You know, on on this marine thing, my takeaway from that experience was, keep your standards and let others derive the context.

Jaclyn Steele: 26:56

Go into that a little bit.

Unknown: 26:58

Like, did we can we can push where we are used to and accustomed to so much more. Let's go. Right. And, you know, so often, when you're in positions of leadership, or your life deals you a hand that require some kind of executive decision in the here and now. You know, you just have to take the bull by the horns and, and take action. Right? It in a lot of those situations, you know, going deep into why a decision was made or, or, you know, like the circumstances surrounding a particular decision or action. You don't have the luxury of sitting down and explaining that shit. Right. But in the aftermath, or along the way once the ball is moving, right. You get some breathing room that you all of a sudden, like, No, we're like, we're pretty qualified to like, do this. Right. So Oh, shit. Okay, cool. Got it. Let's go. But it was because of that, that allowed us to do this nine day deal in six in six days.

Jaclyn Steele: 28:25

Right? Well, yeah. Yeah.

Unknown: 28:28

It wasn't it wasn't like a thing of bravado or ego. Right. It's, it's just normal. It's our normal. Right. And from what I can tell, I've only had this one experience. But I also have the Salkantay experience to draw from. We don't know any different. Right? And to do any less, at least in along the way and in the moment, would have cheapened the experience for

Jaclyn Steele: 29:00

Yeah, yeah. Well, and you guys went there to be challenged. Right? I love the idea of intentional adversity. And I think physical adversity is the most tangible way to bring that into our lives. Obviously, relationships, bring adversity, all of those things. But I think one of the fastest ways to grow is to bring in physical intentional adversity and to do hard things, and also to take the limits off ourselves in this way. So most people hike Kilimanjaro in nine days. Some people do xy and z in this amount of time. But we don't have to work on other people's timelines all the time. Maybe it's going to take somebody 11 days to hike Kilimanjaro. Maybe it's gonna take somebody four days. Who knows, but we're allowed to go at different paces.

Unknown: 30:01

Yeah, for the record. The record to the summit, was set by a local from the chaga tribe. You went from where we started to the top in 16 hours.

Jaclyn Steele: 30:17

Oh my gosh.

Unknown: 30:21

So you know, oh my gosh, yeah, so limits are what you make.

Jaclyn Steele: 30:32

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So guys, the isotonic and the hypertonic my husband and I have been taking both of these for months now I've noticed my skin has cleared and my digestion has improved. Sam skin has cleared his digestion and energy have improved and even his toenails are growing healthy, he's had some like foot issues for many years. Anyway, this is one of the most powerful and effective supplements I have ever come across truly, I highly, highly recommend you take it as part of your daily regimen and I also have a 10% discount for you to get this 10% Discount go to water and wellness.com/pages/self worth the discount code is on that page and also the link and discount codes are in the show notes. Again, you're gonna go to water and wellness.com/pages slash self-worth. I also think it's important to note about what you just said this is something that I heard So correct me if I misheard. But there is something about standards and expectations. And this is a conversation that Sam and I have had over and over in our now almost 15 year relationship, because when we first started dating, and then in the early years of our marriage, he would say your expectations of people are just way too high. If you lower your expectations, you won't be as disappointed. But also, you won't have this turmoil in your heart all the time. And I struggled with that year after year going, Well, I wonder if he's right. I wonder if I'm right. How is this going to pan out. And in the last few months, Sam has said it a couple of times, but he was like, what you built over the last 15 years and that I watched you build Yeah, was a system in which you hold people to a certain expectation and a certain level of character and moral code. And now you're reaping the fruits of that. It's a little harder when you're young, and you don't know how to define people's character quickly. But as you get older, and you continue on this path of not lowering your standards, or apologizing or changing for anybody else, in a way that cheapens who you are, it allows you to have these really rich and fruitful relationships. And so it's painful at times, because it does cause adversity. But the people who stick around you realize, these are the people just iron sharpens iron, this is these are the relationships that are going to get me to the next level. These are the relationships that are going to help me grow, that are going to bring in that intentional adversity, that is going to help me push past my upper limits and become the person I'm capable of becoming. And if we're not doing that, then what are we doing what I've

Unknown: 38:05

said, I couldn't agree with you more, you know, you, you run out of things to talk about. And when you're walking for that long. And eventually, you know, as the days go on, and the hours get long, those conversations become less than less superficial. And you get into some really, you know, some polarizing conversations, conversations that require a deeper level of understanding from just a human standpoint. You know, and some of them are just like, Dude, shut the fuck up. You're being you're being the victim right now. Right? And that's, you know, when, when you're with the right people, you can challenge each other in that way, and it doesn't break the relationship. Whether it's your significant other, you know, us being the coal, or, you know, the people that you care most deeply about, you know, your your best friend, or, you know, the guys that you deployed with. There's just, there's just no room for to there's no room to hold back that doesn't serve our relationship. No, no need to. And don't get me wrong, like a lot of times, you know, I'm really rough around the edges tact is not my strong suit. And, you know, more often than not, it doesn't come out right the first time and it takes some some navigating of what the intent behind whatever I just said, is, and, you know, here we go. But at no point when you're when you're having these conversations with the right people, the do you feel threatened.

Jaclyn Steele: 40:04

And that's the key, I think, is with the right people. Because I think about like criticism. Now in the world of social media, people. I mean, there's criticism everywhere you look and people bullying each other and all of those things, but intentional criticism from somebody that loves you. You want those people in your life. They're going to make you a better human, they're going to help you with your business. They're going to help you with your relationships, they're going to help you raise your children. Criticism is not something we should be cancelling out. It's something with the right people, like you said that we should be welcoming.

Unknown: 40:44

Absolutely. Tell me where I messed

Jaclyn Steele: 40:46

up. Yeah,

Unknown: 40:48

I mean, tell me where I can improve. Like that. That's the stuff that you know, and, you know, the thing is, and you know, reflecting On my journey in entrepreneurship, you can only improve so much at any given time. So when you're asking for this feedback, you know, people have their, their hierarchy of what, you know, Jacqueline needs to fix first, you know, but you also have your own expectations of growth. And when what you put into action is out of alignment with my expectations, right, that creates, that creates friction, but as growth nonetheless. So, you know, you have to be careful with one who you solicit feedback from, make sure that their opinion really matters to

Jaclyn Steele: 41:37

somebody that you respect. Yeah. And, and I have to say this to somebody whose life you wouldn't mind living,

Unknown: 41:45

or, you know, and then, you know, so make sure that their opinion matters to you that they are living a life that is aspirational to you. And then also, like, just recognize for yourself that, you know, like, whatever that laundry list of criticism is, you can only work on so much of that shit at any given time.

Jaclyn Steele: 42:12

I love that. Yep. incremental changes are sustainable.

Unknown: 42:16

Yeah, that 1% shift is my buddy Aaron hind says, you know, like, when he goes to a conference, or he comes to the leaders forum, or, or whatever, you know, I'm like, what, what provides the value to these experiences for you? Because, you know, like, we're gonna try people that are like, constantly you in a call or go into something next week,

Jaclyn Steele: 42:37

or Thursday and Friday of this week? Yeah.

Unknown: 42:40

And it's like, you can you can be a seminar junkie, you can be a coaching junkie, you can be a podcast junkie, like what do you? What are you looking for in these experiences? And, you know, Aaron said the best, he's all I'm looking for it to, like, get the value of whatever I paid, or how much time I had to give is 1% shift.

Jaclyn Steele: 42:59

Ah, that is so powerful.

Unknown: 43:03

I think people missed the boat on that, and how, what you

Jaclyn Steele: 43:05

totally missed the boat on that about 1%. Actually, I don't take you to a totally different location. So I've missed the boat on that. So much thinking needs to be totally different once I leave this.

Unknown: 43:16

Yeah. And, you know, it's, it's, it's, you know, like I talked about with my Bufo experience, like, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't come back to planet earth. And like, everything was different. You know, it, but how, you know, two years later, things are different.

Jaclyn Steele: 43:36

You're different.

Unknown: 43:37

Yeah. And, you know, which kind of brings me to this next point, you know, make your experiences mean something where we got to. We got to camp the day before we summited. You're so high up above the clouds. And in the world that we live in a technological innovation. We were able to pull three G from Kenya where I thought I was going to be incommunicado for 10 days or whatever. I'm getting text video from Nicole and the kids and oh my gosh, it was beautiful. Right? Yeah. So for people who don't know my son has a, a condition called cysteine urea, and his kidneys don't process a specific amino acid efficiently. So he has a propensity for kidney and bladder stones. Right. And when he was three, we pulled a stone out of his bladder about that big.

Jaclyn Steele: 44:48

It's like the size of a neck. Oh, yeah.

Unknown: 44:50

And I mean, I even asked him in the emergency room, my son, like after I looked at the X rays, but we didn't tell him we didn't have an explanation. I was like, put, like I'm talking to my three year old son. He's so cute to tell me like when you swallow and how you swallow this egg. You know? Oh, Little do we know he has egg size kidney stone in his bladder. So sweet baby. But you know that was such a traumatic experience for him. You know? Seeing our naturopath and body work body workers and our chiropractor is does lush grass and guasha and he's like do you know if you want to help his bladder issue this you know if you if you work that scar you know we can resolve a lot of that stuff with Dr. Some more neuromuscular connection to that, you know, his pelvic floor. Now he's married to In this trauma, my son I've been doing cold plunges in the backyard the last couple years. And he's like, Dad, let me get in. Let me do this. Let me do this. And I'm like, son, you can't get in here with daddy. Unless you're committed to 10 breaths. This is not like a jumping jump out. Let's have some fun kind of thing. This ain't the lake, you know. And, you know, he put it together climbs in the cold tub with that. I'm holding his hands. We're both shivering and just one, two, right? doing the work now prior to this anytime, you know, dot got near that scar? All hell breaks loose. Don't touch me. No, absolutely not. It hurts pain, pain, pain, pain, pain, pain, pain, right? His association with that scar is pain. Right? Or other imaginary, right? And so I'm up here at 15 Five, and I get this video from Nicole. And she like pivots to the backseat of the car. And you're just leaving Doc's office. And she's like, Tell tell Daddy, what you did. He's like, Dad, I let I let Dr. Dre work on my scar for a whole minute. And he goes on to reenact the experience, where he's holding a timer. And the whole time he's staring at the clock with this countdown, and he's just like, doing the breath work. And I just had I had a fucking meltdown.

Jaclyn Steele: 47:35

Oh, I was gonna say, How did you react to that? Absolutely.

Unknown: 47:38

I just, I just lost it. And it was like, in that moment, the journey up the mountain was starting to get physically taxing. And I was slipping into this place where I was having I was having the as I was bracketing these conversations of like, do I want to finish? Do I not, you know? Like, it's getting really hard. Yeah, I'm uncomfortable. Now. It only gets worse from here. And trying to figure out how to accept that reality for myself. And then I see this video. And I'm like, it dawns on me, if you're going to miss moments like that, which in my opinion, are the equivalent of his first steps. You have you better make this shit worth it. And you better come up with a story to tell. And there there was no, it was, it was the motivation I needed to get out of my own way. Like failure is not an option at this point. However, on the day that we Summit, we get like, it's dark. It's 5am. You know, we're like, we're going to watch the sun come up on the way up this rock, and like 45 minutes in, like we've made like, no progress. We're moving ungodly, so slow. Or before we were moving, you know, in relatively straight lines. You know, now we're starting to switch back.

Jaclyn Steele: 49:17

Oh, yeah. And it takes forever. I did that out of the Grand Canyon. Yeah. It just it is so boring. Right? Yeah. Well, and, and the ego mind goes, Hey, you don't really have to do this.

Unknown: 49:31

I literally had this thought it was like, Dude, you could just like step off the edge and roll all the way down. It'd be all good. I let I literally had that thought.

Jaclyn Steele: 49:41

I've had so many of those thoughts. Do I totally get it

Unknown: 49:43

the way you know, I was like it. Oh, no, that sounds simple or profound. I'm still confused about it myself, but still thinking about quitting and the act of quitting are not the same.

Jaclyn Steele: 49:57

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Unknown: 55:48

I've thought about and I thought about you know my journey and business, my journey in school, my journey as an athlete. All of those things multiple times. Along the way, things I've got, like, I've got over my skis, you know, outside like depth beyond my edges. And then like, Buck, I'm, I think I'm done. You know, I've created a circumstance, you can even roll it back to the pandemic. I'm in a circumstance where and I read about this in inner circle, my book I was in, I had a circumstance where nobody would blame me for quitting.

Jaclyn Steele: 56:34

Oh, those are the most dangerous to,

Unknown: 56:37

you know, like, the only response I would get would be holy understand, we get it. You didn't do it. sooner. pat on the back. Nice try. And it's like now, the very next takeaway is, when all of your choices are painful, choose the one that pays off and actually get you somewhere.

Jaclyn Steele: 57:07

Ah, that is so profound. It translates into so many areas, because I know so many people, and there are people listening to this podcast right now that feels stuck. What's more painful, staying stuck or doing the work to get unstuck?

Unknown: 57:25

Well, I'll tell you been stuck. So you know, we're halfway up this rock face. And I'm like, man, it would we're at a point in the journey where it'd be just as painful to turn around as it would actually finish. You might as well finish, right? Like that. That's pretty simple. And it's like, ah, yeah. The, the easy way is actually harder. You know?

Jaclyn Steele: 58:03

It is.

Unknown: 58:05

Yeah, it is. Yeah, and you can't, unless unless you're like, you're, you're in that shit. You can't explain that to people.

Jaclyn Steele: 58:14

No, you know, I think like, I have an example. When I was 16 years old. I went skydiving, and I went with my Yeah, yeah, awesome. Well, thanks. But I went skydiving with my mom and my boyfriend at the time. And the way that they had it set up, we had like three hours of training. And then they took us up in this little tiny Cessna to like 5000 feet. And then you have a ripcord and you climb out to the side of the airplane and you hold on like Superman. And you like, kind of just you're literally flying in the air like Superman. And then when they tell you to go, you have to arch back in this certain way. And the ripcord actually pulls your your parachute out, and then you navigate the parachute. You solo? Yeah. Yeah. It was awesome.

Unknown: 59:10

It was really good about Kilimanjaro. He talked about 16 year old skydiving.

Jaclyn Steele: 59:17

Yeah, yeah. But the example is this. My, my, I think it was my boyfriend that did it first. And then it was me. And then it was my mom. So I get down to the bottom and I'm waiting for my mom and waiting for my mom and waiting for my mom, the plane comes down to my mom's on the plane. And she got she gets out. And she was like, I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. Well, it ate at her and ate at her and ate at her until her birthday. And she went back. She got back on the plane. And she did it. But like you said, quitting, is generally the harder decision, rather than just pushing it. And it's usually like that last 10% That's so hard when you're tired, and you're mentally fatigued. Oh, yeah. But that 10% is what's going to push you past that upper limit, and get you to that point where you go, Hey, if I can do this, and this is what you guys I know are teaching in your coaching programs. If I can do this physically, then this business move is not really that big of a deal. This relationship change is not really that big of a deal. Spending this amount of money on this thing that's going to get me to the next level is not that big of a deal, because I just did this.

Unknown: 1:00:37

Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny that you say that. That's that is the outcome of intentional adversity. It's having that experience to draw upon so that when the unforeseen and unknown comes at you, you can take a breath and remind yourself that hey, if I can do that, that I can make it through this. I heard this really perfect. There's really awesome quote a long, long time ago. And I think it just, it holds true now, you know, it's like you survived every single one of your worst days up to this point.

Jaclyn Steele: 1:01:15

Oh, yes, I heard that I heard that recently.

Unknown: 1:01:19

I don't know who said it. But it's, it's, it's

Jaclyn Steele: 1:01:23

such a good it was, I just heard it on the podcast, it was so good, I'm going to remember it right when we stop.

Unknown: 1:01:31

Regardless of how you know how that that works, they ended, you know, that's in the rear view. Still here. So that to draw upon, if you allow it, if you give it that significance, and take it less of turn that, that loss into a lesson and allow it to serve you as opposed to steal from you. And, you know, the last the last piece of the last takeaway of Kilimanjaro, zero forever, and always the author of your story.

Jaclyn Steele: 1:02:14

I love that one.

Unknown: 1:02:17

And what I you know, the, the video of my son, the, like, I want to quit, but I can't like I don't, you know, like, all of that, you know, gets intertwined into this. Like, yeah, I'm, I'm gone. But I'm not, I can't in good faith, be the father, I want it to be to my children, if I'm not showing them what it is to live life well. And that that's, well, that's not to say, like, there, there are seasons where, you know, things like Kilimanjaro may not be a not maybe a not right now thing. But you can't allow that attorney to nevermind things.

Jaclyn Steele: 1:03:17

That's profound.

Unknown: 1:03:19

I'm in this moment where I'm like, what a what a moment in my child's development, where he's having breakthroughs. And I'm missing it, I cannot allow myself to come up short, on the rest of this journey. At that point, in my mind, it would have all been for naught.

Jaclyn Steele: 1:03:45

I don't totally understand how you come to that conclusion. Not only do

Unknown: 1:03:48

you not submit, but you also missed this really important moment in your kid's life. So you better come back with like a story to tell.

Jaclyn Steele: 1:04:00

And you did and so many fantastic takeaways. I have, I have a couple more questions for you. Do you have a couple more minutes? Go for it. You are so intrinsically motivated. Your wife is so intrinsically motivated. I think Sam and I are intrinsically motivated people. Where do you think that intrinsic motivation comes from?

Unknown: 1:04:29

I mean, that's, that's, that's easy. I was raised in a family where it was explicitly dictated to us, me and my three brothers, that no one's going to do it for you. You know, the, the expectation of a taking handouts from anyone was just not a thing. You know, everything, everything that you wanted, after a certain point, that had to be earned. You know, if you want to, if you want to wear those clothes, you know, if my parents like, disagreed with a style choice or a message on a brand or whatever, but you go get a job and you pay for that shit. If, you know, if you want that car, you go buy it, otherwise, you're getting what we can afford, you know, you're gonna get what we think makes sense. So my parents gave us the gift of agency and allowed us to flex that agency to a certain extent, you know, and, you know, so that's where that intrinsic motivation came from. You know, if it was explained it was it came down to me or Early in high school looks on you got you got two options, if you want to go to college is Uncle Sam, academics or sports. That's it. There's two more right after you. And we don't have it for you. You need to go figure it out. So with with that, in the back of my mind, everything was performance driven.

Jaclyn Steele: 1:06:27

They bred you to be an entrepreneur,

Unknown: 1:06:30

you know, and everything's a meritocracy. Like I don't, I don't come from a household where we celebrated the shit that everybody does. You know, like, if you graduate high school, like I didn't, I didn't get a party supposed to do that. I got into college, you're supposed to do that. I excelled at sports, you're supposed to do that. And it wasn't that we didn't celebrate these things or acknowledge the accomplishment of them. It's like,

Jaclyn Steele: 1:07:04

I wasn't inflated. Oh, and in

Unknown: 1:07:07

the moment that really that for myself that really stands out. When I finished my first master's degree, instead of writing a thesis and going through that process, I took a six hour sight from memory comprehensive exam, more questions, six hours, that's it. And I'll never forget walking out of that test. And the credits didn't roll. Confetti didn't fall. The band didn't play. You know, it was like, I guess I'm gonna go have a sandwich and take a nap. Life keeps moving on. Life keeps moving, you know. And so the the next logical question. Okay, well, what's next?

Jaclyn Steele: 1:07:55

Mm hmm. And I think that's so powerful to think about, because I'm all for celebrating our victories. Yes. But in a way that doesn't feel conclusive. Like, okay, now I've made it and I'm done.

Unknown: 1:08:11

Amazing point. Yes. You

Jaclyn Steele: 1:08:13

know, like, Let's raise a glass. Let's go have a fun dinner. But then let's get back to work tomorrow, because we've still got a lot to do. Yeah, in a very good way. Not in a like beat yourself up kind of way.

Unknown: 1:08:25

Kilimanjaro was the same way we got to the same kind of experience, like all that work this moment. Here we are. Yeah. And then you have this like, moment of the admission of reality like, Damn, we still have to come back down.

Jaclyn Steele: 1:08:41

Mm hmm.

Unknown: 1:08:43

I guess. Let's get the step up. You know,

Jaclyn Steele: 1:08:47

I think another thing to note is like, there are summit moments in life like literal summit moments that are so beautiful, and life changing and things that we will treasure forever. But it's so important that we build everyday lives, that we can come back down to from the summit and go, Hey, I appreciate this just as much. And if you're in a place, if you're listening right now. And if you're in a place where you feel like you're not at that point, it's those one degree changes, little by little. So here's my last question for you, Michael. The theme this month is expanding past upper limits. You're an incredibly motivating guy, or the people that are like, Hey, I reached my peak on this, Hey, I just can't push past anymore. I can't wake up at 430. Or I can't do a CrossFit class or whatever. What is your piece of advice? To let them know that they there's more in there? Because there is

Unknown: 1:09:55

you know, for all of the uncharted territory that I've endeavored in sport, in military service, in entrepreneurship. It's always been in pursuit of answering the question, what if I could?

Jaclyn Steele: 1:10:13

Oh, I love that. What is it good.

Unknown: 1:10:17

I don't I don't think people really give themselves an honest shot to let curiosity lead the way. I've got this tattoo on my left arm that is a constant reminder of literally everything that I've built up to this point and will build moving forward. So I only got this far because of what I did not know. You know what? What, you know?

Jaclyn Steele: 1:10:42

Yeah. You know, it's so funny that you say that last week, I did a meditation and the conclusion that I came to at the end was a similar question. And it was, what if it's wonderful? Yeah, I think so often we let our fear Is take control of the wheel. Yeah, but what if we don't? And what if it's wonderful? What if you can't? Yeah, yeah. Those are the questions we need to be asking ourselves. Oh, my gosh, I want to go to Kilimanjaro now. Yeah. Thank you so much again for your time. Is there anything else that you want to share with anybody? Again, I'm gonna link all of your stuff because I know people are gonna want to reach out and follow you and maybe do some coaching and all of those things. But

Unknown: 1:11:31

you know, everything that we do in coaching, is specifically on on both in person and remote kicks off with a Berkman assessment? And how do you want to dig deep and figure out what what makes you tick? I'm all about helping you through that conversation. Just Just reach out to me, I love to have you in our Facebook group, the leaders forum. And, you know, I'm really easy to find on all social channels. So reach out, we'll connect and, you know, it's all about progress. Always.

Jaclyn Steele: 1:12:05

It is and that that makes one feel so good. And I'm going to do one more plug for you because I have had you as a coach. And what I will say about you is and I think unfortunately, this is unique in the coaching space, but you practice what you preach. I've known you as a coach. I've known you as a leader. I've known you as Sam's good friend from college. And I've known you as a friend and you are consistent in all the arenas, you are consistently you and who you are in every space. Thank you. So I just respect you so much. Thank you. Yeah, well, thank you. Thank you for being here. Absolutely.